Vetrix AI

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KiiNgZoNe
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by KiiNgZoNe »

New update. What problems I have in mind were these:

1. The AI builds too many mining camps even if it doesn't need them.

2. I'd like to have this kind of trick: I want to make this AI attack and raid as quickly as it can. The problem is, Vetrix doesn't know when to put the pressure more and to quit. Military superiority sometimes help. Sometimes. I've seen Vetrix losing to Dreadnaught (not the "Dreadnought") a lot just because if the archers don't die to Dreadnaught's hellish spam of skirmishers, Vetrix doesn't really know when to put the pressure on even with military superiority hitting an advantage already.

3. I've yet to make a clear diverse of strategies. Flush does work quite well, but eventually encounters problem #2, and probably xbow rush...probably (I've never really looked into this so lol). The krush is of something that needs to be improved. I'd work on this but I need to deal first with building placements, especially at problem #1, and RESOURCE CONTROL, since the AI never ever really had a good resource control, even now that I tweaked it a bit into not wasting on unnecessary upgrades.

If there are any problems I haven't mentioned, feel free to help. I'd really love it. Thanks!

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Campeador
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by Campeador »

I can't test your AI now because I haven't installed the game in this PC but:

1- Crusade just build new gold camps when it detects too distance from gold to miners. Perhaps you could look for my UP camps file, although in one of my last versions it sometimes spammed gold camps everywhere when the game was too long. I think it was resolved in my lastt version, but not 100% sure.

2- Sorry, but battle behavior was my weakness as scripter and it is even worse now aafter 2 years of inactivity and last UP improvements.

3- My advice is to start optimizing your favourite strategy, adding B plans againt enemy counters. Just when you are satisfied with it start with another one. Or when you haven't more ideas to improve it but you have to start your next strategy. ;)


You know now why we call this the world of :head . B)

Armelon
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by Armelon »

Hey! Indeed nice to see there is also another newish scripter! :)

I have tested your AI and i have a couple of notes for you :)

- It kept building houses with 2 villager after its first house, more effective if yu put it back to 1.
- It waited quite long with the first mill having villagers walk to the berries and back to tc several times.
- I noticed builder assist is on, this is not really needed nor effective since you can put eactly how much builders you want. (5 builders on a blacksmith wasnt the idea i guess :D)
- By mistake i tested it 1v1 on a 8 player map, this made me notice the scouting isnt really the effective. The scout went once to the other side of the map, just missing the enemy AI. then turned around and went back scouting at home. so it had no idea where the enemy was untill 30 minutes.
- It went for berries over 30 tiles away, might wanne consider slightly lower drop distances.
- You might wanne consider placing town-centers like (set-strategic-number sn-town-center-placement lumber-camp)
- Also adding place control in general might help you out, specialy when your placing things like castles with now happend on the side and back of your town
- Retreating rules for castle fire
- Slightly faster uptimes for a flush, or a defensive tower may help you out alot.

I think the AI is pretty decent, if you clear up your dark-age play a little bit i think you might be able to beat several scripts currently in the AI ladder!

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KiiNgZoNe
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by KiiNgZoNe »

Okay. Here's what I did:

After a few days of :head and :head and :head , I decided to scrap Vetrix (I made a backup though) and started from scratch. It didn't seem to help me though, so I turned my attention to my other AI, Arclight. It's my very first UP AI; Vetrix was made during 1.0c days. Arclight was long incomplete, and I merged some of Vetrix's rules to it, along with its ideas, then I continued to scripting under this AI file.

I uploaded it now. It's still incomplete, though. It lacks castle and imperial age researches, proper macro, and proper transition to imperial age. I don't know, but I think its strategies are not clear enough, and is still incomplete since I only made it go with a few set of strategies despite that I put more strategy goals actually. It still lacks more counter-strategies, just like the old version, gatherer rules per strategy are still lacking, it only has 1 flush strategy, and the scouting is still too horrible. Too horrible that it doesn't scout the enemy properly. If it does, it doesn't scout the PROPER enemy, TG-wise. :rofl

I can't tell if this new Vetrix/Arclight (which one's cooler? lol) can be called as a solid AI, since it's way too incomplete, but it can handle itself. In one game I was surprised it has beaten ATE, when I was supposed to pit my AI against "Archon AI" lol, but I still just don't know :head

Again, comments and suggestions are highly appreciated! Thanks to all of you guys who helped and save me from a lot of :head ! :D

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marathon
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by marathon »

Beating ATE is not really a feat. I mean, back in the 1.0c ladder days, people used to only submit their AIs if they could beat ATE in 51% of games. ATE is still strong in team games and water, as well as weird maps.

For me the best approach for an AI scripter is to make some testing scripts, then a solid competitive one, then start from scratch for a classic-to-be script. You seem to be right on track :)

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KiiNgZoNe
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by KiiNgZoNe »

New update, but it's not really even big. :rofl

I am trying to use DUC in attacking now, but I haven't manage to fiddle around it since I'm too overwhelmed with schedules.

There are problems that I am seeing with it:

1. Scouting. To enable Vetrix to attack using DUC, it needs to find a lumber camp first. However, it fails to find one most of the time. As a result, the AI never attacks in Feudal Age even if it has enormous amount of archers. Strangely enough, it doesn't even attack also using TSA despite the AI having a real mass of archers when the trigger for the DUC fails, (always lol) even if Vetrix is already way past the goal for military superiority. Upon reaching Castle Age, most of the time, the TSA suddenly triggers on. On team games though, especially in 4v4, Vetrix's crush attack using DUC is maybe fair enough since I'm only testing it for now. It leaves me wondering how do Vetrix's pocket players manage to attack their enemy flank upon reaching the requirements to attack using DUC, while its flank remains as a sitting duck until it reaches Castle Age. Can anyone help me with regards to proper scouting, especially with regards to concentration on scouting the target base, so Vetrix would always have a good track on its target.

2. Economy. As much as possible I don't really want to make the AI use escrows for example, when it tries to research hand-cart. I've tried to make a ruleset for resource control (I got the idea from II2N's Barbarian) to improve its time to advance to the Imperial Age a bit, for the time being. The problem I get with this is especially with regards to Vetrix as a pocket player. I would like for you guys to check the AI file out and see what changes I can make for the resource control ruleset, and judge which is better, use a resource control ruleset, or just leave it to escrowing. Thank you!

3. Any ideas to improve Vetrix's advancement to Feudal Age? I've put much rules already for it to strongly concentrate on taking resources...or maybe that wasn't enough? Can I even use DUC for this?

4. I've never really even understood the math to determine the superiority and the math to determine the counter goal. I just took the idea on one of the posts on the forum elsewhere and just put random numbers in it. :rofl :rofl :rofl Can someone enlighten me? :lol:


Comments, criticism, suggestions, and recommendations are very much welcome, and highly appreciated, as I will need more and more of them for the development of my AI, and of course, my knowledge as a scripter as well. Thanks! :dance

scripter64
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by scripter64 »

If TSA isn't working, maybe add a rule that responds to a taunt from yourself that chats the current sn-maximum-town-size and sn-target-player-number. If you see the TSA idling, chat the taunt to confirm if the town size has been expanded enough to include the enemy's buildings.

Welcome back! Nice to see you again!

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KiiNgZoNe
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by KiiNgZoNe »

Thank you scripter64! I already found the problem so I guess I'll just place it until the next update. I also forgot to put a farm calculator and DUCs on villagers and town center during dark age to immediately advance, but I think I'll just put it there as well in the next update, since the DUC thing brought some drawbacks on my AI, causing my 'fixed' Vetrix lose so much against the Vetrix update I placed here. I think I get the idea though; advancing faster is always a good thing but I haven't been able to strongly concentrate on managing eco.

Speaking of that, I'm trying to find a way to make a gatherer's calculator which can automatically update depending on the situation (which I'll tactically put myself). It's hard for me to explain and maybe harder for you guys to understand but here's an example:

- During Feudal Age, first of all, I want my civilian population to place 5 villagers to gold mining in a constant manner. From this, is there a way for the other gatherer percentages to adjust by itself based from the constant 5 gold miners throughout the Feudal Age (flushing), or should I just manually put rules one-by-one? Surely the latter is quite the task, but unless it can't be helped, I'd be doing that. It would take the rule count so much though. Don't worry though. I'm already trying to learn a gatherer calculator, based on marathon's code example. :head :rofl


Correction after correction. Somehow trying to fix and update Vetrix makes it lose horribly against Vetrix's past update that came before this new update. :head :lol:

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KiiNgZoNe
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by KiiNgZoNe »

Been a while trying to :head

The computer containing the most updates of Vetrix has its hard drive failed, so it took me a while to fix whatever may went wrong in the last update posted, and I probably failed to see some compared to what I did before the failure.

There's no really big updates, really, but I decided to make some changes.


1. Since the DUC attack failed to work altogether for the last time, I decided to switch back to TSA. The codes for attacking using DUC are still there, but made completely obsolete.

2. Since Vetrix completely fails to rush during feudal age (out of 10 tries vs Chameleon, and even Kosmos) in which he did nothing but kept pumping archers all the way until he could make it to the Castle Age, I decided to adapt II2N's Arabian_Knight 's suicidal way of attacking to rush using TSA. By now Vetrix sometimes can make it vs some AIs who love to fast castle (sometimes it horribly loses).

3. I scrapped the scouting rules until a proper one can be arranged. As of now, Vetrix can only childishly scout and hope for the best :lol:

4. Vetrix's resource control became horrible for no reason. Before the 0.2a update, I think it handled itself quite well, but now it constantly loses to some AIs like Kosmos, heck, even Rome's Power in some occasion of team games (though Vetrix usually wins most of the time). It's main problem lies within trying to get to the Imperial Age while trying to keep himself intact. Resource control has constantly been Vetrix's top 1 problem that never had even a temporary solution based on the now :rofl


Had the other computer not failed its hard drive, I would've posted a better update (army making and attacking-wise).

A look-around would be greatly appreciated!

scripter64
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Re: Vetrix AI

Post by scripter64 »

Nice! Welcome back :)

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