new AI is coming... GamesGod

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halcyon88
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by halcyon88 »

You're an ambitious one! That would be even stronger than Barbarian!
A.K.A. TOAO_Philosopher (formely TOAO_ReLeNtLeSsS, TOAO_Leo, TOAO_Ayubu_, TOAO_FSpirit, _TOAO_HussY_ and TOAO__HussaR_ (even before that, Deadly_Hussar— and DEADLY POISON on AOKH back when I was REALLY young)).

kingdomzz
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by kingdomzz »

It is very difficult to make an AI stronger than a barbarian, because it does not play quite honestly, it sees the army and buildings through the fog of war. He sees the same thing that an ally sees, even if he has not studied cartography - this is not fair)) and this gives him an advantage, especially when he plays in alliance with another barbarian)) at the same time, he attacks the enemy only when he sees an advantage over the enemy army through the fog of war))) this is also not fair))) this cheat can be seen if you run a Barbarian against a Barbarian and the same civilizations))) it often happens that they attack each other only when both have already developed to the age of the empire and have studied most of the studies )))
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kingdomzz
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by kingdomzz »

However, there are tactics that defeat the barbarian with a very high probability)) - this is tower rush, if it is implemented correctly.... And an early attack by skirmishers in the age of feudal)) and then after the transition to the age of castles, add knights to the attack - this tactic have tribal))
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kingdomzz
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by kingdomzz »

But my task is not to create an AI that will defeat the barbarian, but an AI that will be interesting for people. So that it would be difficult to defeat him because of his uncertainty of development... So that the player does not under any circumstances guess what my ai is up to))) what kind of attack will be made... when, which army will attack... How it will develop...))
Because if, for example, you make an AI attack only with paladins, then the player will only lose the first times)) and then such an ai will start to run very easily just by producing spearmen))
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TheNightPanda
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by TheNightPanda »

kingdomzz wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:55 am
It is very difficult to make an AI stronger than a barbarian, because it does not play quite honestly, it sees the army and buildings through the fog of war. He sees the same thing that an ally sees, even if he has not studied cartography - this is not fair)) and this gives him an advantage, especially when he plays in alliance with another barbarian)) at the same time, he attacks the enemy only when he sees an advantage over the enemy army through the fog of war))) this is also not fair))) this cheat can be seen if you run a Barbarian against a Barbarian and the same civilizations))) it often happens that they attack each other only when both have already developed to the age of the empire and have studied most of the studies )))
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure most of these only aply to the hardest difficulty which uses multiple cheats, not the hard/extreme difficulty. The only cheat barbie should use on hard is knowing enemy military and villager count which is accepted among scripters as being ok and something that all top ai's use, not only barbie. I'm sure some of the more experienced scripters can confirm/clarify this

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halcyon88
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by halcyon88 »

You say your task is not to create an AI that can beat Barbarian but you also said you only want to make an AI that only professional players can beat. Even Barbarian isn't that strong.

I am guessing you mean that you would like an AI that strong but it's not your priority. Your priority is to make it fun and interesting :)
A.K.A. TOAO_Philosopher (formely TOAO_ReLeNtLeSsS, TOAO_Leo, TOAO_Ayubu_, TOAO_FSpirit, _TOAO_HussY_ and TOAO__HussaR_ (even before that, Deadly_Hussar— and DEADLY POISON on AOKH back when I was REALLY young)).

kingdomzz
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by kingdomzz »

halcyon88 wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:04 am
You say your task is not to create an AI that can beat Barbarian but you also said you only want to make an AI that only professional players can beat. Even Barbarian isn't that strong.

I am guessing you mean that you would like an AI that strong but it's not your priority. Your priority is to make it fun and interesting :)
Well, I mean, I'm trying to create the most unpredictable AI, so that the things that the ai does during the game cause the players to think - " damn, how did this happen??? This should not have happened!..."))) and that these things that the player did not expect from the AI-led to the defeat of the player)) caught the player by surprise :D and then such a game will be both interesting and difficult at the same time :)
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kingdomzz
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by kingdomzz »

TheNightPanda wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:19 am
kingdomzz wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:55 am
It is very difficult to make an AI stronger than a barbarian, because it does not play quite honestly, it sees the army and buildings through the fog of war. He sees the same thing that an ally sees, even if he has not studied cartography - this is not fair)) and this gives him an advantage, especially when he plays in alliance with another barbarian)) at the same time, he attacks the enemy only when he sees an advantage over the enemy army through the fog of war))) this is also not fair))) this cheat can be seen if you run a Barbarian against a Barbarian and the same civilizations))) it often happens that they attack each other only when both have already developed to the age of the empire and have studied most of the studies )))
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure most of these only aply to the hardest difficulty which uses multiple cheats, not the hard/extreme difficulty. The only cheat barbie should use on hard is knowing enemy military and villager count which is accepted among scripters as being ok and something that all top ai's use, not only barbie. I'm sure some of the more experienced scripters can confirm/clarify this
Well, I just think that the AI should play fair) as a person, then it will be more interesting to play against him, because he makes mistakes like a real person... Well, for example-my ai goes on the attack and does not know what kind of army the enemy has and in what quantity, because of this, yes, I agree, my ai plays weaker than others... But it's fair, though:) well, for example, he sends a lot of knights to attack and does not know that the enemy has a lot of spearmen, who can then kill all the knights) but my ai is weaker, the logic of behavior is not yet fully spelled out) yes, my ai is very likely to die from spearmen, but this is due to the fact that there are not enough features of behavior) you can create a strong ai without cheats, you just need to prescribe the most) well, for example - ok, my ai runs knights to attack - the player's spearmen run out of the darkness... So that my ai is not mercilessly killed-you need to add behavior for this situation) - well, for example-to estimate the number of spearmen and if there are a lot of them-to retreat and try to flank the base) at the same time make archers so that they kill spearmen)
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TheNightPanda
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by TheNightPanda »

kingdomzz wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:17 pm
TheNightPanda wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:19 am
kingdomzz wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:55 am
It is very difficult to make an AI stronger than a barbarian, because it does not play quite honestly, it sees the army and buildings through the fog of war. He sees the same thing that an ally sees, even if he has not studied cartography - this is not fair)) and this gives him an advantage, especially when he plays in alliance with another barbarian)) at the same time, he attacks the enemy only when he sees an advantage over the enemy army through the fog of war))) this is also not fair))) this cheat can be seen if you run a Barbarian against a Barbarian and the same civilizations))) it often happens that they attack each other only when both have already developed to the age of the empire and have studied most of the studies )))
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure most of these only aply to the hardest difficulty which uses multiple cheats, not the hard/extreme difficulty. The only cheat barbie should use on hard is knowing enemy military and villager count which is accepted among scripters as being ok and something that all top ai's use, not only barbie. I'm sure some of the more experienced scripters can confirm/clarify this
Well, I just think that the AI should play fair) as a person, then it will be more interesting to play against him, because he makes mistakes like a real person... Well, for example-my ai goes on the attack and does not know what kind of army the enemy has and in what quantity, because of this, yes, I agree, my ai plays weaker than others... But it's fair, though:) well, for example, he sends a lot of knights to attack and does not know that the enemy has a lot of spearmen, who can then kill all the knights) but my ai is weaker, the logic of behavior is not yet fully spelled out) yes, my ai is very likely to die from spearmen, but this is due to the fact that there are not enough features of behavior) you can create a strong ai without cheats, you just need to prescribe the most) well, for example - ok, my ai runs knights to attack - the player's spearmen run out of the darkness... So that my ai is not mercilessly killed-you need to add behavior for this situation) - well, for example-to estimate the number of spearmen and if there are a lot of them-to retreat and try to flank the base) at the same time make archers so that they kill spearmen)
It only gets total military count. Not which units

kingdomzz
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Re: new AI is coming... GamesGod

Post by kingdomzz »

I don't know, it's difficult to determine, but it seems to me that he also sees exactly what units the enemy has, and therefore adds counter - units to his army... Well, for example, he makes archers archers archers... And then I noticed that the enemy also has archers, then he sees archers in the enemy and adds skirmishers or knights to his main army, which was originally only made up of archers... Although I don't know, maybe it's just a coincidence... Well, I mean the barbarian ai...
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