Immortal v0.9c

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zbhcn
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Re: Immortal

Post by zbhcn »

TheMaximalBeing wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:14 am
Thanks for the feedback :) These are on my todo list but it will be a while before I get time to work on team games. I would estimate March-April.
What a pity. I wish you update it soon.

samoer
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Re: Immortal

Post by samoer »

I'm enjoying this AI, and expect its better update!

Arpheus
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Re: Immortal

Post by Arpheus »

I just played my first game against your AI and it is very fun to play against. It plays really well and is strong. That it plays almost all civs is great.

Can't wait to play more games against it. From what I read in your description it has lots of different strategies which is awesome! Playing against AIs which play only one civ and always the same strategy might be a challenge sometimes but it doesn't offer enough diversity to keep you playing against it more.

Thats why the DE AI overall is still my favorite AI even when there are more powerful ones like e.g. Shadow or Rehoboam. It has quite some diversity, strong endgame and plays all civs. Yours might be able to dethrone it but I have to do more games to get a better feeling for it before I can tell.

If it could break walls that would make it so much more powerful. In my first game against it I made a 90% wall and placed a single tower into the entrace and filled it with 10 archers - that kept the entire army away until castle age.
Felt like cheese but I want to be able to use all tools available so it would be great if it could break walls - especially cheap pallisades - and get into the base.

Btw. are you TheMax? This AI has some barbarian 2.0 vibes

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FireBall37
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Re: Immortal

Post by FireBall37 »

I'm curious, how long have you been working on Immortal?
those hackers are just idiots, i spit on them :lol: - Mabuse

TheMaximalBeing
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Re: Immortal

Post by TheMaximalBeing »

Arpheus wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:07 pm
I just played my first game against your AI and it is very fun to play against. It plays really well and is strong. That it plays almost all civs is great.

Can't wait to play more games against it. From what I read in your description it has lots of different strategies which is awesome! Playing against AIs which play only one civ and always the same strategy might be a challenge sometimes but it doesn't offer enough diversity to keep you playing against it more.

Thats why the DE AI overall is still my favorite AI even when there are more powerful ones like e.g. Shadow or Rehoboam. It has quite some diversity, strong endgame and plays all civs. Yours might be able to dethrone it but I have to do more games to get a better feeling for it before I can tell.

If it could break walls that would make it so much more powerful. In my first game against it I made a 90% wall and placed a single tower into the entrace and filled it with 10 archers - that kept the entire army away until castle age.
Felt like cheese but I want to be able to use all tools available so it would be great if it could break walls - especially cheap pallisades - and get into the base.

Btw. are you TheMax? This AI has some barbarian 2.0 vibes
Yes I also enjoy playing against AIs with more diversity and the ability to adapt to the enemy strategy - hence why I designed it this way. :) I think it probably has more strategies than the DE AI although many are not properly tested/optimized yet.

In general, there are numerous ways to exploit AIs using walls - wall traps to funnel their units, walling in resources, walling in the player, walling in their buildings, placing towers near their camps and walling them in. They are perfectly fair strategies since humans can use them against each other, and ideally AIs should be able to respond to them properly too. Each one requires the AI to respond differently and properly responding to all of them would require a lot of effort. For now, I think I would rather focus on other things but I intend to deal with some of them eventually. I'm sure there will always be exploits that AIs cannot deal with (e.g. I don't think any AI can deal with walled in resources, and don't think this will ever happen).

TheMaximalBeing
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Re: Immortal

Post by TheMaximalBeing »

FireBall37 wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:42 am
I'm curious, how long have you been working on Immortal?
I've been working on the compiler for a few years and probably a over a year on Immortal. Not the entire time of course - usually just a few days with a month break in between.

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FireBall37
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Re: Immortal

Post by FireBall37 »

:o That is pretty impressive. Quick question, with which civs is Immortal most likely to go for siege onagers? :devil :devil
If you haven't already thought of it, I request a strategy with Mongolian Drill SO
those hackers are just idiots, i spit on them :lol: - Mabuse

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KimberlyAzula
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Re: Immortal

Post by KimberlyAzula »

FireBall37 wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:32 pm
:o That is pretty impressive. Quick question, with which civs is Immortal most likely to go for siege onagers? :devil :devil
If you haven't already thought of it, I request a strategy with Mongolian Drill SO
Ethiopians would make a lot of sense.
There is no denying The Morrígan's prophecies!

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Esty
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Re: Immortal

Post by Esty »

TheMaximalBeing wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:36 am
FireBall37 wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:42 am
I'm curious, how long have you been working on Immortal?
I've been working on the compiler for a few years and probably a over a year on Immortal. Not the entire time of course - usually just a few days with a month break in between.
Some need years of stubbornness (me), some others have just "talent" :D
Author of TRiBaL_Warrior, Yggdrasil, PharaoN, WoodyWood Pecker and currently :o dette :dance

Arpheus
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Re: Immortal

Post by Arpheus »

I agree there are lots of ways to abuse the AI but I think it really only needs to handle one thing to make playing against it even far better: If there is no way into the base instead of idling in front of it or walking up/down just shoot at the thing with the lowest HP like Pallisade, House or whatever and break in. And if that doesn't work move a bit further and repeat until it gets in.

That would instantly make a fully walled base with pallisades in feudal age no more problem for the Immortal AI. Atm you can just fully wall and watch the Immortal AI waste ressources on army which it can''t use until you are in castle age while it could so easily punish you for wasting too many ressources on walling.
And on the other hand leaving your base open to give the AI a fair chance is like not playing at full potential as a player.

It would feel great to try to close gaps created in the wall by the AI or to try to prevent the enemy from creating gaps in the wall with your own skirms.

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