Wartron V0.95 (UP/1.0c)

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cakemaphoneige
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by cakemaphoneige »

Yea im gonna keep the huskarl flood, i just havent implemented it yet. The way it is now it can hold it's own very well so i decided to upload before i put the huskarl switch back in.

1 thing to remember with this version is that i deleted more than half the ai before i began improving it. The system i had with counters and such was making it worse and the changes i wanted to make were severe and would result in alot of :head if i kept the old system and tried to work with it(because of its complicatedness). So i just deleted all of it and decided to build it back up from scratch.

Im not 100% yet but i probably will just put it back in the way it was, but more effectively. The only problem is sometimes it could use the huskies earlier(for xbow rushes and cav archer heavy civs) so i might add a castle drop strat in there somewhere. The issue with castle drop is it would override the normal strategy so i might only make it do it against civs that usually always go archers (mayans, britons etc..).
rip ai scripters

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UnfairestEel
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by UnfairestEel »

Goths should not waste such a good uu
Knowledge is Time.
This simple fact can be derived from these beliefs:
Time is Money.
Money is Power.
Knowledge is Power.
Therefore, Knowledge is Time.
Q.E.D.

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UnfairestEel
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by UnfairestEel »

cakemaphoneige wrote: Version 0.95BETA
*This is the overhaul version ive been working on(and off) for the last month or so. What i did with this version was strip Wartron down of all its complicatedness and rules that were failing it and have begun building it back up.
*This version does not have the usual Huskarl strategy nor its anti-monk strategy, im yet to get around to re-instating those strategies. A few other counter strats are missing too i think.
*Much stronger eco in early-mid castle age.
*Handles attacks very well. Ai's that used to beat it in there 1st attack wave will either have to fight alot harder to beat Wartron now or will now lose to wartron.
*Has a slowish imp time(due to stronger castle eco) as im about to refine/balance that.
*Still able to play aztec/japs/vikings on top of goths, however for some strange reason thinks its too good to research champion with these civs.
*Will ask you how you like it now when its winning
*Highly advise testing this script.
*Now has UserPatch compatibility, a few UP things put in there.

Enjoy
"*Handles attacks very well. Ai's that used to beat it in there 1st attack wave will either have to fight alot harder to beat Wartron now or will now lose to wartron."
I've noticed. And it is annoying.
Snake attacks Wartron with a bigger army that apparently counters infantry with +500 more score. After the attack Snake has it's army destroyed and Wartron takes it in his stride now with +1000 more points than Snake. Also Wartron turns offensive more often then not at this stage.

What did you do to make Wartron's army go so berserk? I swear they are on steroids. :ph34r:

This happens to Snake Byzantines, Goths and pretty much all of Snake's civs :/

Snake byz still wins the war but Wartron destroys Snake in the first battle despite being completely countered and even out boomed.
I'm starting to wonder if being passive against Wartron is smarter than being aggressive because when Wartron is on the defensive, his opponent takes huge casualties.
Knowledge is Time.
This simple fact can be derived from these beliefs:
Time is Money.
Money is Power.
Knowledge is Power.
Therefore, Knowledge is Time.
Q.E.D.

Archon
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by Archon »

I don't know if it is intended, but in my two testgames so far Wartron didn't build a monastery. :huh:

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Alevo1
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by Alevo1 »

UnfairestEel wrote:I'm starting to wonder if being passive against Wartron is smarter than being aggressive because when Wartron is on the defensive, his opponent takes huge casualties.
MOAR SIEGE!

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UnfairestEel
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by UnfairestEel »

No, it's not castles that cause a problem.
Knowledge is Time.
This simple fact can be derived from these beliefs:
Time is Money.
Money is Power.
Knowledge is Power.
Therefore, Knowledge is Time.
Q.E.D.

cakemaphoneige
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by cakemaphoneige »

Archon wrote:I don't know if it is intended, but in my two testgames so far Wartron didn't build a monastery. :huh:
Yea i disabled it during testing for the current version. In all my ai's i used to have them build one straight after 2nd tc in castle age but found they were using wood that is very valuable in booming in early castle age, so decided to test what would what happen if i used that wood for something else and risk not getting many relics.
In the next version im working on now ive allowed it to build one a bit later in castle age.
UnfairestEel wrote:What did you do to make Wartron's army go so berserk? I swear they are on steroids. :ph34r:
I think its just that it pumps out units quicker, due to a better eco(which could be even better). The same thing that you said has been happening in my tests as well, i have a few idea's to change that though.
rip ai scripters

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marathon
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by marathon »

I finally tested this latest version under UP, 1vs1 Arabia.

First test vs Lade Mayans, ok LSM don't work against xbows. First attack was successful. 45' until cleaning the map.

Next test vs Lade 0.9.4 Byzantines (with a lousy boar hunting addition) was very fun. Both AIs hit 19:45 castle time (Lade had 15:49 feudal while Wartron had 14:53 feudal, so Lade was stronger economically for some time). Both boomed with an emphasis on army, though Lade's army was unupgraded skirms-spears. Lade got 4 relics. Both hit 39:xx imperial (Wartron was 37" faster).
And now the fun begins.
Lade attacked in early imperial with halbs, FU eskirms and a dozen catas. Wartron had two handers, but a few seconds later it took champion. A couple minutes later it took EHuskarl while Lade finished with blacksmith ups.
At this point it all seemed that Wartron would win. Deep invasions into Lade town, Lade lost its whole army twice. But with a dozen of each raxes and ranges, this is equal to perfusion for Byzantines, so Lade hit pop cap again.

Byzantine Halbs and Skirms are unusually efficient against Gothic infantry. Skirms do 4 damage to Champs and 6 to Pikes, Halbs do 6 damage to Huskarls. But, come on, 100 champs should rape 100 eskirms no matter what. For some reason Lade absorbed those invasions pretty well, even though the enemy was not weakened and Lade's invasions weren't any better.

Lade needed ecata, Wartron needed halberdier for those several catas (up to 19 at some point). Who will take the key upgrade first? Lade wastes gold on catas and siege, Wartron wastes (better: invests) gold on Huskarls.
At 1:07 Wartron is weak for some reason and Lade finally takes ECata and Logistica in a matter of seconds. At 1:30 Wartron resigned after losing 100+ buildings. Lade killed 1000 and lost 800.
There was a total of 8000 gold in the map in the end. Lade avoids gold mining once it has enough gold, but Wartron needed some more gold. There was a group of 4 safe and intact gold piles at the outskirts of the Gothic town. Wartron should have dropped a camp there, but seems it delayed too much and the area was full with farms and houses. This 3200 gold might have turned the tide, Huskarls are surprising gold-demanding units.

I still can't understand how that old AI of mine can resist Goths of all scripters. Wartron had a very good army very early in imperial, but those skirms and spears survived... 28' of imperial fights against EHuskies and Champion without ECata, archers, scorpions or hand cannons.
Seems that the attack of Wartron is a bit too suicidal. Only 1 razing with such deep invasions, maybe you should edit the attack system.

Wartron had collected only 10k gold, compare it with 24K for Lade (Lade had 8000 from relics, Wartron only 800). You should drop some extra camps at some point, don't wait to have 200 pop before doing so. This might be the turning point, less gold than Lade? No AI mines less gold than Lade byzantines. I tried to make the trashest script.
So, look for camp and attack problems. You should win next time.

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UnfairestEel
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by UnfairestEel »

I must download your old byz. :ph34r:
Knowledge is Time.
This simple fact can be derived from these beliefs:
Time is Money.
Money is Power.
Knowledge is Power.
Therefore, Knowledge is Time.
Q.E.D.

Archon
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Re: Wartron V0.95BETA (UP/1.0c)

Post by Archon »

cakemaphoneige wrote:
Archon wrote:I don't know if it is intended, but in my two testgames so far Wartron didn't build a monastery. :huh:
Yea i disabled it during testing for the current version. In all my ai's i used to have them build one straight after 2nd tc in castle age but found they were using wood that is very valuable in booming in early castle age, so decided to test what would what happen if i used that wood for something else and risk not getting many relics.
In the next version im working on now ive allowed it to build one a bit later in castle age.
I noticed you had lots of idle TC time until you finished the hand cart upgrade. So you dont make too much use of a fast 2nd TC.
marathon wrote:And now the fun begins.
Lade attacked in early imperial with halbs, FU eskirms and a dozen catas. Wartron had two handers, but a few seconds later it took champion. A couple minutes later it took EHuskarl while Lade finished with blacksmith ups.
[...]
Lade needed ecata, Wartron needed halberdier for those several catas (up to 19 at some point)
I think halbs are more important for goths than getting champs or e-huskys, if you already have the other research of them.
I still can't understand how that old AI of mine can resist Goths of all scripters.
Actually, i was surprised to read that it made it to imperial before the 40 minutes mark, as IIRC it stayed in castle age forever in my tests. Maybe UP farming helped it, though.

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