Wartron V0.95 (UP/1.0c)

[kram1138]

One method I tried against Tlamacazqui which worked quite well once was a Spanish mush that just also used LC to counter the others. Atonement just made all the superstrong monks turn blue

I tried the same except with monks only, with good results. Got atonement quickly, then advanced and got heresy. My ai got tlamas monks, and tlama couldn't get them back!

[_II2N_]

That's true but think of this:
there are only probably two units in the game that can counter gothic Champions, Ehuskarls and Gothic Halberds

Those two units are:
Monks and Cataphracts. and possibly gunpowder

Have you tried Teutonic knights?

One method I tried against Tlamacazqui which worked quite well once was a Spanish mush that just also used LC to counter the others. Atonement just made all the superstrong monks turn blue

I tried the same except with monks only, with good results. Got atonement quickly, then advanced and got heresy. My ai got tlamas monks, and tlama couldn't get them back!

Yeah, Tlama doesn't set any priority for atonement even when enemy also has monks, so it is actually pretty weak vs other mushes.

[cakemaphoneige]

UnfairestEel wrote:That's true but think of this:
there are only probably two units in the game that can counter gothic Champions, Ehuskarls and Gothic Halberds

Those two units are:
Monks and Cataphracts. and possibly gunpowder


Have you tried Teutonic knights?

A well prepared gothic purfusion flood is almost uncounterable except maybe against better champs(japs/aztecs). The units will come out so quickly they will overun a monk army, ive watched countless times cataphracts get overrun and same for gunpowder units.

As for teutonic knights, theyre great counters for champs but once a gothic perfusion flood starts, they will outnumber and overun them as well.
I remember this game i played online a few years ago, i was goths and this guy was teutons and we both had fully upgraded the aforementioned units and were just sending wave after wave of units at each other. We both refused to create other units, he just kept making ETK's and i just kept making champs. My champ armies were outnumbering his ETK's like 2-1 but he was beating them easily. However my units production and army micro management kept me in the game and after about like 40 minutes of sending wave after wave i began to push into his city and once i disrupted his eco it was all over, the mighty ETK's brought down by a perfusion champ flood.

The reason wartron doesnt beat these kind of ai's all the time is cause its rarely allowed to get to its full power.
Also my goth flood when i play myself is about 2x better.

[marathon]

He had TKs and you had Gothic Champs and he lost?
25 hits to take down vs 4 hits to take down?
Not even me could lose such a game. TKs are trained almost as fast as perfusion champs. With 2-3 castles he should win hands down.
Catas could lose to champs, they are harder to upgrade and to mass and also more expensive and faster to kill, but not TKs. Even Jaguars could lose to Gothic champs. Catas suffer against Gothic halbs.

Paladins should be able to beat Gothic infantry if they are massed. It is hard to mass 70 palas, but once you have this mass all you need is to keep 4 stables busy and you will eventually break in.

Chu Ko Nus are pretty strong against even Huskarls. When backed up by their strong scorpions they are a threat. If you throw 100% huskarls against them, he could switch to champs and scorpions and win.

[UnfairestEel]

yeah, I forgot about Jaguar Warriors and Teutonic knights.
Plumed archers, cavalry archers and mangudai also have a chance.

btw, I couldn't imagine any melee flood beat a good TK army, Wartron must have been 10x superior in eco to win that one.

[Alevo1]

War elephant flood!

[Promiskuitiv]

Berserker hit&run flood.

[cakemaphoneige]

TKs are trained almost as fast as perfusion champs

Wow they are too, i thought u were having a brain melt when u said that but i tested it and when the teutons had 10 ETK's the goths only had 14 (and a half) champs. Whats the go with that? TKs must have a very quick creation speed if they almost match the goths. Both civs were post imp so goths would have a 103% boost on champs base creation speed whilst the ETKS would only have the normal coinscription boost of 33%. I can smell a ETK strat now after knowing that.
I guess in the game i mentioned the guy i was versing must of only had TK's not ETK's cause he certainly would of smashed me otherwise, it was so long ago. It was a tough game though.

btw, I couldn't imagine any melee flood beat a good TK army, Wartron must have been 10x superior in eco to win that one.

It wasnt wartron it was myself playing. Wartron mirrors my strat a little bit but im way better at it. I boom like a crazy and send 100 champs at the enemy at 30-35 min(well i did back when i played everyday, id need some practice now)

War elephant flood!

LOL. Well if someone was goths they would be insanely, stupidly arrogant to keep making champs against WE's, they would switch to halbs and stomp the floor on those bad boys.
BTW i once did a random civ match with 8 brititrons. There was, huns,mongols,turks,persians,goths,saracens and 2 others i forget(but they all created that civs UU). But the mongols and persians were the last 2 standing and boy was that army of 50 odd Elite War Elephants cutting loose. City's literally got stomped on lol, fell within minutes of them arriving. Im pretty sure the persians ended up winning but the mongols were good too.

[Campeador]

Halbs can stop elephants if you can mass them enough at time, and with fast production bonus it's less hard for Goths. Anyway, any single unit army can be countered, but combos require combos. If Persians add their FU hand cannons (or even scorps) to eles, halbs will require other units. HC can counter even monks, the main ele nemesis. Of course Goths have other options, but Persians are not defendless against them.

Vikings. Their infantry is not so great than Gothic, but they've got a superior economy and FU archers and scorps, so they can be better combinig units. Anyway, if Goths resist well until they've got full pop and eco upgrades, the only Viking eco advantage will be gold shaft mining instead of stone shaft mining (which affects more villagers), so in late game Goths will become stronger.

[marathon]

If he gets 50 eles, you are doomed.
Eles and scorpions should beat goths as well, but it takes time to mass all this army. It's, surprisingly, very gold-heavy.

Teutonic Knights, Samurai and Woad Raiders are trained almost as fast as Gothic units.
Tarkans and Elite Chu Ko Nus are trained fast as well.