Rehoboam

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Arpheus
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Re: Rehoboam

Post by Arpheus »

This is a crazy AI to play against. On standard settings with Franks for your AI I had quite some trouble against it and lost some games. I didn't want to completely wall off my base as this would probably be the easiest way to win.

Best 2 strategies against it so far:

- Khmer 13 min castle age into instant siege workshop + scorpions - that comes out just in time and can stop the first crazy push with minimal losses
- wall and leave one spot open where you defend with a tower and skirms - add more and more archers into that tower and add skirms on top. It worked with the Teutons good feudal eco and great 10 pop towers since the AI wouldn't commit to pass this tower and move into the eco - or just break the pallisade wall at another place and move in

I had big trouble winning against it with micro since it will shoot at 2 skirms/archers at the same time. Even with 20 skirms vs around the same numbers from your AI it just stomps my micro attempts since I can only shoot at one unit at a time with massive overkill or not even killing a single unit to the great AI micro and leaving the skirms there without micro did not win neither. Really strong AI micro - I love it

Against players if you make it more intelligent against filled towers so that it will just commit to pass the tower with a few losses instead of trying again and again only to retreat because the tower shoots 4-7 arrows (teuton tower) at it it will even be nasty against such attempts.

I tried 4 scouts against around 8-10 of your skirm/archer micro and they just melted the scouts - sending in more scouts even with the armor but no bloodlines didnt work neither since the timing of the attack is really strong. I think you have to ignore all eco upgrades and just mass army if you want to hold against your AI's micro which is a sign of a really good AI

Well done and I hope there will be more updates to prevent cheesy strategies from players :D

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halcyon88
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Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:43 pm
Location: UK

Re: Rehoboam

Post by halcyon88 »

I think to beat him you have to only take fights when you SIGNIFICANTLY outnumber him. Hard to get to that point, though. Helps if you have a civ with good bonuses.

You may also be able to get him to fight on lower elevation even when you are Tatars. He is, understandably, REALLY confident in his micro.#

Britons 25% faster archery range bonus may help with outnumbering him with skirms.

Just a few ideas. Only time I ever beat him so far wasn't in a 1v1.

Upping 1 vill faster than him but still getting two ranges up may also help you get a bit of a production advantage.
A.K.A. TOAO_Philosopher (formely TOAO_ReLeNtLeSsS, TOAO_Leo, TOAO_Ayubu_, TOAO_FSpirit, _TOAO_HussY_ and TOAO__HussaR_ (even before that, Deadly_Hussar— and DEADLY POISON on AOKH back when I was REALLY young)).

Arpheus
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Re: Rehoboam

Post by Arpheus »

Yes getting 2 ranges up early is really important and helps. But even then its rough if you have around 30% more units with the micro. One time I defended well and we got up to castle age at the same time and we both hit updates instantly but the crossbow update is I think 15 sec faster than the elite skirm update. He used these 15 sec and pushed up the hill against skirms and melted the skirms on a hill...

After that I knew what people mean when they say that godly crossbow micro with the power spike is really insane. I had to reload that battle and retreat my skirms to the TC and wait for upgrades but it was rough. Easiest way to win is to fully wall and make a mangonel that is repaired by vills. That beats them rather easily.

After you stopped his archer numbers go full pike and later in imp halb and its a rather winnable game. I think the first attack is the most dangerous thing about the AI - a really good AI.

I won quite a few times against it with defensive play in feudal age and in castle age full pike and a bit delayed boom. But if you don't stop that early pressure its lost. So far I guess its around 50/50 win/loss. With cheesy strategies like full walling its probably 70/30 since you still have to kill his troops somehow - full walls just help you to take favorable trades where he can't micro too well since you shoot - retreat out of range and continue to do so.

And in Castle Age being walled with siege behind is a win basically until he comes with too many knights - you better be prepared with pikes :)

Great Job on the AI and I hope you continue to improve it for play against players. This could be an AI where Pros could really struggle to win a 1v2 and 1v3 should be completely impossible in my opinion

el+noob
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Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:25 am

Re: Rehoboam

Post by el+noob »

At the moment it does not attack the palisades, so it is half robbery. Without the palisades it is very difficult to beat it

TheNightPanda
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 3:22 am

Re: Rehoboam

Post by TheNightPanda »

Arpheus wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:37 am
This is a crazy AI to play against. On standard settings with Franks for your AI I had quite some trouble against it and lost some games. I didn't want to completely wall off my base as this would probably be the easiest way to win.

Well done and I hope there will be more updates to prevent cheesy strategies from players :D
There certainly will. However there are still other things higher on the priority list atm. The next big update will focus on UP compatability and getting rdy for the Davis Cup 6 and will probably be finished sometime in december. The update after that will focus on playing vs humans though. Not only against walls but I hope to basicly cover any potential human exploit except douche. It's likely gonna be 3-6 months before such an update though.

Arpheus
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Re: Rehoboam

Post by Arpheus »

TheNightPanda wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:21 am
... The update after that will focus on playing vs humans though. Not only against walls but I hope to basicly cover any potential human exploit except douche. It's likely gonna be 3-6 months before such an update though.
I am officially hyped!

This might become a nightmare to play against and I love it. It is so great when you see the AI punish you for trying to exploit AI weaknesses

osquitarxp
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The Era Barbarian is coming the end. the life the king

Post by osquitarxp »

The Era Barbarian is coming the end. the life the king

TheNightPanda
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Updated to 1.70b

Post by TheNightPanda »

el+noob wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:18 am
here I leave you a rec with franks in speed 1.7 and with the commands
Minor update. Hopefully you can now fight Rehoboam on 1.7 speed El+noob :)

-Ranged units will no longer stop shooting on 1,0 or 1,5 speed or on pc's with lower time between tics. These settings will also no longer make deer luring bug out.
-Will now stop trying to hit and run when using 8x speed or to low speed and chat this to the player.
-Should now chat multiple times telling if any non-supported settings are chosen or if the enemy is using strategies Rehoboam is not yet made to play against.

These changes should not have any impact on gameplay in the KOA2 tournament.

el+noob
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Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:25 am

Re: Rehoboam

Post by el+noob »

it already works

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halcyon88
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Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:43 pm
Location: UK

Re: Updated to 1.70b

Post by halcyon88 »

TheNightPanda wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:57 am
el+noob wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:18 am
here I leave you a rec with franks in speed 1.7 and with the commands
Minor update. Hopefully you can now fight Rehoboam on 1.7 speed El+noob :)

-Ranged units will no longer stop shooting on 1,0 or 1,5 speed or on pc's with lower time between tics. These settings will also no longer make deer luring bug out.
-Will now stop trying to hit and run when using 8x speed or to low speed and chat this to the player.
-Should now chat multiple times telling if any non-supported settings are chosen or if the enemy is using strategies Rehoboam is not yet made to play against.

These changes should not have any impact on gameplay in the KOA2 tournament.
Super awesome.

P.S. I have nicknamed this AI "Micronerd AI" since version 1.7. I hope you take that as a compliment :smirk:
A.K.A. TOAO_Philosopher (formely TOAO_ReLeNtLeSsS, TOAO_Leo, TOAO_Ayubu_, TOAO_FSpirit, _TOAO_HussY_ and TOAO__HussaR_ (even before that, Deadly_Hussar— and DEADLY POISON on AOKH back when I was REALLY young)).

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